P1A10, Another "Stop Safely Now" Thread

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  #21  
Old 10-10-2020, 05:37 AM
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Default Re: P1A10, Another "Stop Safely Now" Thread

Originally Posted by S Keith
I went completely cross-eyed halfway through that. It looks like it retained many prior codes as suggested by the numerous "not present at time of request".

Go into the DTC tab and clear the codes.

re-check codes.
Cleared and rechecked.


===PCM DTC P1000:00-2B===
Code: P1000 - OBD Systems Readiness Test Not Complete

Status:
- DTC Present at Time of Request
- Malfunction Indicator Lamp is Off for this DTC

Module: Powertrain Control Module

===END PCM DTC P1000:00-2B===

===PCM DTC P1A14:00-2B===
Code: P1A14 - Hybrid Powertrain Control Module - Transmission Disabled

Status:
- DTC Present at Time of Request
- Malfunction Indicator Lamp is Off for this DTC

Module: Powertrain Control Module

===END PCM DTC P1A14:00-2B===

===PCM DTC U0111:00-2B===
Code: U0111 - Lost Communication With Battery Energy Control Module A

Status:
- DTC Present at Time of Request
- Malfunction Indicator Lamp is Off for this DTC

Module: Powertrain Control Module

===END PCM DTC U0111:00-2B===

===OBDII DTC None===
Successful DTC reading, no error codes found

Module: On Board Diagnostic II

===END OBDII DTC None===

===ABS DTC None===
Successful DTC reading, no error codes found

Module: Antilock braking system

===END ABS DTC None===

===RCM DTC None===
Successful DTC reading, no error codes found

Module: Restraint Control Module

===END RCM DTC None===

===TCM DTC P0A0A-FF===
Code: P0A0A - High Voltage System Inter-lock Circuit

Module: Transmission Control Module

===END TCM DTC P0A0A-FF===

===APIM DTC B1136-60===
Code: B1136 - Audio Steering Wheel Switch 2 Circuit Failure

Status:
- DTC Present at Time of Request
- Malfunction Indicator Lamp is Off for this DTC

Module: Accessory Protocol Interface Module

===END APIM DTC B1136-60===

===OCS DTC None===
Successful DTC reading, no error codes found

Module: Occupant Classification System Module

===END OCS DTC None===

===4X4M DTC None===
Successful DTC reading, no error codes found

Module: 4X4 Control Module

===END 4X4M DTC None===

===PSCM DTC None===
Successful DTC reading, no error codes found

Module: Power Steering Control Module

===END PSCM DTC None===

===IC DTC U0111-60===
Code: U0111 - Lost Communication With Battery Energy Control Module A

Status:
- DTC Present at Time of Request
- Malfunction Indicator Lamp is Off for this DTC

Module: Instrument Cluster

===END IC DTC U0111-60===

===IC DTC U2511-60===
Code: U2511 - CAN communication bus fault

Status:
- DTC Present at Time of Request
- Malfunction Indicator Lamp is Off for this DTC

Module: Instrument Cluster

===END IC DTC U2511-60===

===FDIM DTC None===
Successful DTC reading, no error codes found

Module: Front Display Interface Module

===END FDIM DTC None===

===SDARS DTC B1031-60===
Code: B1031 - SDARS Satellite Antenna Open

Status:
- DTC Present at Time of Request
- Malfunction Indicator Lamp is Off for this DTC

Module: Satellite Digital Audio Receiver System

===END SDARS DTC B1031-60===

===SDARS DTC U0255-60===
Code: U0255 - Lost Communication With Front Controls Interface Module

Status:
- DTC Present at Time of Request
- Malfunction Indicator Lamp is Off for this DTC

Module: Satellite Digital Audio Receiver System

===END SDARS DTC U0255-60===

===HVAC DTC B12A5-60===
Code: B12A5 - Mode Door Actuator, Feedback Circuit Open or Shorted to Battery Voltage

Status:
- DTC Present at Time of Request
- Malfunction Indicator Lamp is Off for this DTC

Module: Heating Ventilation Air Conditioning

===END HVAC DTC B12A5-60===

===HVAC DTC B298A-60===
Code: B298A - Mode Door Actuator Drive Circuit(s) Open

Status:
- DTC Present at Time of Request
- Malfunction Indicator Lamp is Off for this DTC

Module: Heating Ventilation Air Conditioning

===END HVAC DTC B298A-60===

===HVAC DTC B12B8-20===
Code: B12B8 - Driver Blend Door Actuator, Slow or Door Obstructed

Status:
- Previously Set DTC - Not Present at Time of Request
- Malfunction Indicator Lamp is Off for this DTC

Module: Heating Ventilation Air Conditioning

===END HVAC DTC B12B8-20===

===GEM/SJB DTC None===
Successful DTC reading, no error codes found

Module: Generic Electronic Module / Smart Junction Box

===END GEM/SJB DTC None===


 
Attached Files
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forscan 4.txt (4.1 KB, 66 views)
  #22  
Old 10-10-2020, 07:19 AM
S Keith's Avatar
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Default Re: P1A10, Another "Stop Safely Now" Thread

This is going to be a tough one.

Go into the Oscilloscope menu, select BCM at the bottom, click the settings wheel to select data, move all items to the right and click the checkmark.
Select Table view
Hit the play button
Take screenshots of all the data and post

Scour the engine compartment for loose or broken wires, especially the 3 large plugs at the back of the compartment on the firewall. That's the PCM. Remove the plugs and inspect each plug/wire/socket for corrosion.

Check ALL fuses.

 
  #23  
Old 10-13-2020, 05:07 PM
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Default Re: P1A10, Another "Stop Safely Now" Thread

This has been SOLVED.

Here is my “I have no idea what I am doing” guide to fixing this

Let me start with what happened, in case someone is googleing this.

I left the 2009 Ford Hybrid Escape (4x4) to sit, while we traveled. I left the 12volt battery connected, which I have now learned- you shouldn’t do. It sat for 14 days or so and would not start on my return. I thought the 12 volt battery needed to be charged, so I left it on a standard trickle charger. The 12 volt battery at this point is only 30 days old. Once charged, I attempted to turn it over. The SUV turned over and I put it in gear. The SUV immediately stopped and the dash warning lights all lit up and I got the dreaded “Stop Safely Now” (SSN) message. I pushed the SUV back into place and got to work.

I checked the 12volt battery, bringing it into a car parts store to have it checked- it was good. I started looking up the dash warning lights. The SSN message, red triangle and flashing check engine light pointed to the hybrid battery being the problem. I knew I was going to need to read the codes to be sure. I ordered a Scan gauge 2- complete waste of money. Don’t bother. I ordered a “ForScan ODB2” reader from amazon. I ordered
This One This One
. It plugs into a laptop. Keep the CD that comes with it! You will need it to install the drivers on a laptop. I choose this one because I knew I could save the logs to upload to these forums quickly.



The codes (DTC) I got back were:

Code: U0111 - Lost Communication With Battery Energy Control Module A

Code: U3003 - Battery Voltage

Code: P0562 - System Voltage Low

Code: P0A0A - High Voltage System Inter-lock Circuit

Code: U2472 - Unexpected Ignition State

Code: U2023 - Fault Received from External Node

Code: U2511 - CAN communication bus fault

Code: P1A10 – Hybrid Powertrain Control Module Battery Disabled



A quick search here on the forums told me that again, this pointed towards the hybrid battery having a low voltage. A not so quick call to 12 dealerships within 200 miles of me taught me that no one had the special cable needed to charge the battery. All of them said they could order it. BUT- I would have to pay for shipping to the dealership, one weeks ‘rent’ of the cable, the one hour of labor and the shipping back to the factory. I was floored by this. I was looking at close to $1800 in costs. Not to mention the towing fee to get to the dealer.

I knew I would have to do this myself and I could do it cheaper. Problem is, I don’t know ***** about electronics, let alone about the 330v of literal heart stopping hybrid battery power. I leaned heavy on this forum and here is how I did it.

How to pull the battery out of the SUV: I Followed
. A quick search on you tube gave me this video. He holds your hand and walks you step by step. I had to have help to pull it out. Stupid thing was heavy. I put it on a sturdy table. Next, I had to open it, to get to the ‘guts’ to charge it.

How to open the battery: I followed
. I went to the 12:30 min mark. I left the battery cells/ trays in the housing. My goal was to charge the battery, not disassemble it. So all I had to do was expose the battery charging points. I also did not need to cut the zip ties. I was trying to leave as much in original state as possible so I could easily put it back.

Here is a Imgur link to a 'more complete' image gallery of the next steps (https://imgur.com/a/iV89R9y). It has full size images and more details. To be honest, I charged the battery only one time using the steps below- and it didn’t work. I had to take the battery back out and completely re do everything. The second time I took the hybrid battery out, I was convinced I was going to have to replace some bad hybrid cells. Fortunately, I did not have to do that. Below are the steps I took to ‘recondition’ the battery – which is simply charging and discharging the hybrid battery more than once.



I chose to remove all three of these pieces, because I was sure that I was going to have to remove bad hybrid cells. Remove These First.



You don’t need to remove the safety plug if you don’t want to, here is the polarity on my safety plug. Again, I chose to remove it because I was sure I was going to have to replace dead hybrid cells.



This is what it looks like when all the pieces are removed, and the charge points are exposed over here.





These are the ‘nails’ that I used to transmit a current from the hybrid battery trickle charger to the hybrid battery.




You can also use the flat metal strips in this box , but I chose not to. For one, I didn’t want to take apart more than I had to, and two, I didn’t want to risk touching anything accidentally and getting shocked.




Here is a picture with the ‘nails’ snug in the charge points. You have to charge bottom to bottom and top to top. This is because the batteries are separated into two ‘racks’ one on top, and another on bottom.




This is the ‘trickle charger’ made for hybrid batteries. From everything I read on these forums, you can’t use a 12volt car battery trickle charger. I am not sure I understand why- but I respected that it wasn’t possible. There is a sweet post on these forums on how to build a charger yourself. But I really, truly know next to nothing about wiring and felt I could not do this. I bought one for $200 from This guy over at Venice Hybrid Tech. He has awesome videos on how to use these charges and why they work. I know next to nothing about electronics so I knew I couldn’t build my own safely, but I can do a simple gator clip to nail. $200 was worth it, and he held my hand through every step of this.




The charger always shows negative - so ignore that. You need to use a multimeter to find out which side is positive and which side is negative on the hybrid battery charge points. You will need to know this so you can attached the clips from the trickle charger to the correct ‘nail’ (red to positive, black to negative)
on youtube shows you how to find the polarity of the charge points on the hybrid battery using a mulitmeter. Mine were opposite of each other. The top was left positive – right negative and bottom was left negative – right positive. Yours may be different. Check to make sure! You will mess up your battery if you did it wrong. Remember, it’s top rack to top rack and bottom to bottom. You charge left to right, not top to bottom.




I attached the red to positive and black to negative and charged away! For reference- before I charged the hybrid battery the bottom rack was reading 80 volts and the top was reading 110 volts. Really dead. Make sure you leave a fan on the hybrid battery while charging! The cells heat up really fast when charging! I placed a box fan right on top of it. I set another box fan to blow straight at it. I charged it for 3 hours on top, checking for heat and voltage every hour. I unplugged the charger, moved the nails to the bottom, checked the polarity and set the bottom to charge for three hours. I never had a problem with heat in the cells, or the trickle charger.

As I said on top, I charged it once and put the hybrid battery back in, and it didn’t work. I charged it to 169 top and 140 bottom. So I realized I had to discharge and recharge the battery several times (recondition the battery). I used a 1000 watt halogen shop lamp to discharge the battery. I picked up a cheap one for $35 over at harbor freight. I then had to build a discharge cord- with next to no knowledge on how to do this.

To do this I grabbed:

15-Amp 125-Volt General-Duty 5-15r Straight Connector (looks like the end of an extension cord- female)

16-2 Lamp cord 5 feet

Electrical tape

Gator Clip Insulated 22-14 gauge 2 pack

I opened the extension cord plug and followed this
on how to set the wires into the plug. My lamp wires had no ground- but I didn’t need it to discharge. The lamp wire also did not have a red or white. But the video said the right side of the plug was ‘red’ and the left side was ‘black’ when looking at the plug. So I wired my gator clips red to the right and black to the left. I used this
to show me how to wire the alligator clips. I then wrapped it in electrical wire. In the end they looked like this discharge cord.






I then attached the alligator clips of the discharge cord to the ‘nails’ using the same polarity as the trickle charger. Red to positive, black to negative – bottom to bottom, top to top. I then plugged the female extension cord end into the male end of the shop light. The light lit up and started to discharge the battery! The light went out after 30 mins- but it continued to discharge over the next three hours. I learned that I had to remove the lamp from the nails to take a proper reading on the nails to see if they were actually discharged to one volt. If I took a reading with the lamp still attached, I got a reading of zero. Which wasn’t correct. After I discharged the bottom, I moved the nails and did the top. It took about 3-5 hours for each rack to discharge. I Discharged the battery five times and charged it six times.

Here’s what I got after every charge:

169 top and 140 bottom

174 top and 151 bottom

180 top and 160 bottom

190 top and 174 bottom

199 top and 186 bottom

210 top and 199 bottom



At this point I had to make a decision: Put the battery back in and see if it works or take it completely apart and check for dead battery cells. I chose to put it back in as the batteries were now over 200. I put the battery back in and I ‘reset’ the computer. To do this I took the positive and negative terminals from the 12volt battery under the hood and ‘touched’ them together for 10 mins. I made sure they could not touch the battery by placing a piece of very heavy fabric between them and the battery. After 10 mins I put them back on the 12v battery, turned the key to “on” and got no stop safety now message! I then ran Forscan to clear and DTC codes. Once I did that, It came back clean! No codes. I then turned over the suv successfully. It went straight to engine run, not electric run. I drove it around the block, breaking frequently to charge the hybrid battery for about 30 mins. No problems as of yet and no DTC codes! All together I have about $250 wrapped up into this and about 3 or 4 days worth of babysitting the charging into it.
 
  #24  
Old 10-13-2020, 05:30 PM
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Default Re: P1A10, Another "Stop Safely Now" Thread

Well. I'm glad you got it fixed.

You would have been better served by using the cheaper PSU recommended and using the nails to charge the entire pack at once. You selected the worst grid charger on the market. I'm amazed Raj is still finding suckers. The idea in the other thread is to create a permanent means of charging the battery should this ever happen again.

There was no added value to the discharges. None whatsoever. Had your pack had any marginal cells in it, you likely would have caused them to fail. Discharges should only follow full charges to 100% SoC meaning 24 hours per charge with active cooling. 3 hours of charging between discharges is completely ineffective.

Had you simply procured the LED supply, charged the whole battery with your nails for 2-4 hours and reassembled it, You would have been done in an afternoon at a fraction of the cost. The 5 discharges and 6 charges were a complete waste of time and represented far more risk than reward.

When a hybrid battery has discharged to the point that it will not start the vehicle... it needs charging, not discharging.

I VIGOROUSLY encourage you to use the balance function in forscan to actually do something akin to reconditioning your battery.


 
  #25  
Old 10-13-2020, 09:18 PM
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Default Re: P1A10, Another "Stop Safely Now" Thread

Originally Posted by S Keith
Well. I'm glad you got it fixed.
Thanks. I really had no idea what I was doing, I am just glad it worked.

Originally Posted by S Keith
You would have been better served by using the cheaper PSU recommended and using the nails to charge the entire pack at once. You selected the worst grid charger on the market. I'm amazed Raj is still finding suckers. The idea in the other thread is to create a permanent means of charging the battery should this ever happen again.
I did not feel that I could build one given the instructions in the other thread. I REALLY don't know what I am doing, and did not understand the instructions at all. I would rather pay to have it done right- even it it sucks- because if I tried to build it myself- I would mess it up and flood the post with "what did I do wrong?' and "help" and get the standard, "if you don't know what you are doing, don't do it.". I had to use youtube videos to make a simple discharge cord. Making my own pack is WAY outside my skill set. So I avoided it by paying someone for it to be done. And it worked. I don't feel like a sucker. I feel like I paid to have someone else's skill build me something I knew I could not. I thought about following the permanent installation instructions in the other thread, but I didn't feel like I could do it properly. If it happens again, I will take a shot at it.

Originally Posted by S Keith
There was no added value to the discharges. None whatsoever. Had your pack had any marginal cells in it, you likely would have caused them to fail. Discharges should only follow full charges to 100% SoC meaning 24 hours per charge with active cooling. 3 hours of charging between discharges is completely ineffective.
I have no idea what this means. Does this mean that I needed to leave it on a charger for 24 hours? I left it on for 3-4 hours because by between hour two and three I was only putting on 3 volts and between hour three and four I was only adding 2 volts.

Originally Posted by S Keith
Had you simply procured the LED supply, charged the whole battery with your nails for 2-4 hours and reassembled it, You would have been done in an afternoon at a fraction of the cost. The 5 discharges and 6 charges were a complete waste of time and represented far more risk than reward.
I did do this. But I used Raj's grid charger. I charged it in 3 hours. I reassembled and put it back in.... nothing. It didn't start. So I did the charge and discharge 'reconditioning'.

Originally Posted by S Keith
When a hybrid battery has discharged to the point that it will not start the vehicle... it needs charging, not discharging.
I understand this. I did charge it once, and reassembled it, put it back in. Nothing. It started with the SSN message and wouldn't turn over.

Originally Posted by S Keith
I VIGOROUSLY encourage you to use the balance function in forscan to actually do something akin to reconditioning your battery.
This is a great idea. I have no idea how to do it, but I will read up on it tonight and set out to do it tomorrow.
 
  #26  
Old 10-13-2020, 09:55 PM
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Default Re: P1A10, Another "Stop Safely Now" Thread

There are too many inconsistencies. A pack voltage of 210+199 = 409V is NOT possible. Only under HEAVY regenerative braking on a battery at the upper charge range would you see that voltage. Never at rest.

With that 300-350mA charger, the highest possible voltage you could obtain after 24 hours of charging is around 360V.

My hope is that whatever meter you used to take those measurements is grossly inaccurate, and the reason it didn't start on the first try is you were actually lower than the 309V measured.

Forscan: Click the wrench icon. It will be one of the BCM tests.
 
  #27  
Old 10-15-2020, 07:57 AM
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Default Re: P1A10, Another "Stop Safely Now" Thread

Originally Posted by S Keith
With that 300-350mA charger, the highest possible voltage you could obtain after 24 hours of charging is around 360V.
I never charged it for more than 4 hours at a time.

Originally Posted by S Keith
My hope is that whatever meter you used to take those measurements is grossly inaccurate, and the reason it didn't start on the first try is you were actually lower than the 309V measured.
This is completely possible. I used a very old meter that was not kept very well. The cords could have been damaged, or the box messed up. It was my grandpa's and I didn't want to go to the store to get another one.

Originally Posted by S Keith
Forscan: Click the wrench icon. It will be one of the BCM tests.
It was in Forscan> Wrench icon > Rmode Rebalance. Make sure your for scan is the latest version! Mine ran for about 25 mins and then it completed. It was really simple.
 
  #28  
Old 10-15-2020, 08:28 AM
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Default Re: P1A10, Another "Stop Safely Now" Thread

Here is my SoC (State of Charge). It's not good, but the battery is almost 12 years old...



For those that come later here is how I got these numbers in Forscan:



1. Select the "graph" tab.
2. Select the "BCM" from the bottom slector
3. Make sure you picked "BCM" from the drop down
4. Click the "gear icon" on the bottom.
5.A pop up window appears.
6. Highlight the settings you want to see and hit the "right arrow" to move them to the "play window"
7. Hit the check mark when you have the ones you want- the pop up will disappear and your settings will appear in the dashboard window of the "graph" tab.
8. Hit play to start the live read.
 
  #29  
Old 10-15-2020, 09:07 AM
S Keith's Avatar
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Default Re: P1A10, Another "Stop Safely Now" Thread

SOC is maintained around 50%. Battery efficiency is near 100% around 50%. If SOC was at 100%, you couldn't charge the battery when you hit the brakes.

The HV battery is just a energy recovery and release system. It's primary function is to capture kinetic energy via regenerative braking and release it during acceleration when the gas engine is most inefficient.

I would move all but the "P0A1F_..." items into the display and list them.

DEL_MOD_V is the single most relevant item for battery health. With batteries that appear to be healthy, I routinely see values of .19 or .25. This number represents the largest deviation between the measured cell groups. If you actually have a failed cell, this number will be over 1.0V. It's a good idea to also check it 24 hours after the car has been idle in the Key-ON Engine-OFF state.

The Rmode balances I have run tend to take 15-30 minutes the first time. It's probably a good idea to do this periodically - twice a year, before and after your warm season.

Something to consider - you can hear when the engine is loaded and charging the battery. If you need to park the car again for an extended period, you could initiate the rmode balance function and then terminate it when the engine stops charging the battery. This should ensure the battery is at a higher state of charge.

 
  #30  
Old 10-15-2020, 05:14 PM
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Default Re: P1A10, Another "Stop Safely Now" Thread

S. Keith, thanks, another great insight.


"Something to consider - you can hear when the engine is loaded and charging the battery. If you need to park the car again for an extended period, you could initiate the rmode balance function and then terminate it when the engine stops charging the battery. This should ensure the battery is at a higher state of charge." If an owner were to do this, what higher SOC range would you expect to see? Is there any negative aspect of terminating "rmode" prematurely?
 


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