"You can't be a meat-eating environmentalist"
#21
09-13-2007, 05:30 AM
Re: "You can't be a meat-eating environmentalist"
Well, I like meat. And I'm an environmentalist. Cows (the main producer of greenhouse gases) will continue to produce gases even if fewer people eat them, because the cows won't magically die off and the farmers won't stop producing because someone somewhere will eat meat. Man has eaten meat since the beginning of our time, and that's not likely to change anytime soon. ... If people just paid a bit more attention to the world around them, rather than their insular lives, then everyone would be better off for so many reasons.
[cars] will continue to produce gases even if fewer people [drive] them, because the [cars] won't magically die off and the [manufacturers] won't stop producing because someone somewhere will [be driving]. Man has [driven gasoline powered cars] since the beginning of [automotive] time, and that's not likely to change anytime soon.
#23
09-13-2007, 08:50 AM
Re: "You can't be a meat-eating environmentalist"
Do you really believe the US has done as much as it can do to reduce greenhouse gases? I mean really? I was recently reminded of a campaign promise made in 1992 - to make CAFE 40 mpg by the year 2000. Well, know it is 2007 and we are still at 27.5 mpg. This while Europe is looking at going to 50 mpg (give or take) for 2010. Europe is also phasing out incandescent bulbs over the next 8 years - only California has made some steps in this direction. People in Europe cause roughly 1/2 the CO2 output per person as we do in the US - and you really think we are doing all that we can?
But yah, its not what the leadership can do, its the people to elect them
#24
09-13-2007, 09:23 AM
Re: "You can't be a meat-eating environmentalist"
Well, I suppoe I am the only person here who can actually see both sides of the issue. I do find it interesting that my motives are being called into question and that you wonder why I would do anything since you think I feel it won't make a difference. What I am saying is there will always be people who eat meat. Period. No matter if all Americans became vegetarians (which isn't feasible for every person due to medical reasons; I, for one, cannot eat soy so my possibilities for protein substitution are limited) there will still be Europe, Asia, Africa, Australia and South America. Meat is an important part of many cultures, and you can go on living the dream that the world will reject meat, but reality and 40,000 years of history prove you wrong.
And, by the way, I make a difference every day of my life--I work for a state environmental protection agency and have worked in public service since before I graduated college. So, thank you very much but I will continue driving my hybrid and eating meat and do as much as I can to continue to conserve and reduce, reuse and recycle.
Also, most Asian countries have very low standards for pollution. For crying out loud hybrids are just now becoming available in India and elsewhere on the continent. Indonesia does absolutely nothing to reduce pollutio and clear cuts rainforest every day for mining minerals.
What meat eaters can do is call their Congressmen and Congresswomen and encourage passage of COOL, which will allow us to know where our meat is coming from. I buy organic, US raised meat and produce. Last time I checked, no one was clearcutting anything for pasture for American beef. It's naturally "clear cut" and if a rancher does his job right the foraging animals will leave little destruction in their paths.
I am done now and I doubt I've influenced any of you. I work my butt off everyday to ensure we live in a clean world, so those of you who are weekend environmentalists go right ahead.
And, by the way, I make a difference every day of my life--I work for a state environmental protection agency and have worked in public service since before I graduated college. So, thank you very much but I will continue driving my hybrid and eating meat and do as much as I can to continue to conserve and reduce, reuse and recycle.
Also, most Asian countries have very low standards for pollution. For crying out loud hybrids are just now becoming available in India and elsewhere on the continent. Indonesia does absolutely nothing to reduce pollutio and clear cuts rainforest every day for mining minerals.
What meat eaters can do is call their Congressmen and Congresswomen and encourage passage of COOL, which will allow us to know where our meat is coming from. I buy organic, US raised meat and produce. Last time I checked, no one was clearcutting anything for pasture for American beef. It's naturally "clear cut" and if a rancher does his job right the foraging animals will leave little destruction in their paths.
I am done now and I doubt I've influenced any of you. I work my butt off everyday to ensure we live in a clean world, so those of you who are weekend environmentalists go right ahead.
#25
09-13-2007, 09:24 AM
Re: "You can't be a meat-eating environmentalist"
True, the US isn't doing enough, and that's a personal decision as well as a more national/public one. On the other hand, I'm very encouraged that California has made steps in phasing out incandescent bulbs. After all, they've been first before and started a more national trend- first state to go nonsmoking in public places, for instance, and look at the wave of states and cities that are already following or are set to follow. Illinois will be nonsmoking starting Jan. 1!!!! (I'm counting the days- my mom and I have outings planned to places we always wanted to go but couldn't/wouldn't because of the smoke.) It has been a very slow process, however, and continues to be. We need climate change issues to be addressed more quickly and uniformly than that.
#26
09-13-2007, 10:04 AM
Re: "You can't be a meat-eating environmentalist"
Well, I suppoe I am the only person here who can actually see both sides of the issue. I do find it interesting that my motives are being called into question and that you wonder why I would do anything since you think I feel it won't make a difference. What I am saying is there will always be people who eat meat. Period. No matter if all Americans became vegetarians (which isn't feasible for every person due to medical reasons; I, for one, cannot eat soy so my possibilities for protein substitution are limited) there will still be Europe, Asia, Africa, Australia and South America. Meat is an important part of many cultures, and you can go on living the dream that the world will reject meat, but reality and 40,000 years of history prove you wrong.
And, by the way, I make a difference every day of my life--I work for a state environmental protection agency and have worked in public service since before I graduated college. So, thank you very much but I will continue driving my hybrid and eating meat and do as much as I can to continue to conserve and reduce, reuse and recycle.
Also, most Asian countries have very low standards for pollution. For crying out loud hybrids are just now becoming available in India and elsewhere on the continent. Indonesia does absolutely nothing to reduce pollutio and clear cuts rainforest every day for mining minerals.
What meat eaters can do is call their Congressmen and Congresswomen and encourage passage of COOL, which will allow us to know where our meat is coming from. I buy organic, US raised meat and produce. Last time I checked, no one was clearcutting anything for pasture for American beef. It's naturally "clear cut" and if a rancher does his job right the foraging animals will leave little destruction in their paths.
I am done now and I doubt I've influenced any of you. I work my butt off everyday to ensure we live in a clean world, so those of you who are weekend environmentalists go right ahead.
And, by the way, I make a difference every day of my life--I work for a state environmental protection agency and have worked in public service since before I graduated college. So, thank you very much but I will continue driving my hybrid and eating meat and do as much as I can to continue to conserve and reduce, reuse and recycle.
Also, most Asian countries have very low standards for pollution. For crying out loud hybrids are just now becoming available in India and elsewhere on the continent. Indonesia does absolutely nothing to reduce pollutio and clear cuts rainforest every day for mining minerals.
What meat eaters can do is call their Congressmen and Congresswomen and encourage passage of COOL, which will allow us to know where our meat is coming from. I buy organic, US raised meat and produce. Last time I checked, no one was clearcutting anything for pasture for American beef. It's naturally "clear cut" and if a rancher does his job right the foraging animals will leave little destruction in their paths.
I am done now and I doubt I've influenced any of you. I work my butt off everyday to ensure we live in a clean world, so those of you who are weekend environmentalists go right ahead.
Maybe you wouldn't be so hostile if you kept the meat out of your diet!
I kid, I kid... No, you sould like you are doing a great job and making smart choices. Please don't take offense. I merely wanted to bring up the subject.
Peace!
P.S. I ate some freshy killed and lightly grilled deer two weeks ago that was excellent. I thanked that deer.
P.P.S. The whole meat for protein thing is bogus. You really don't need SO much protein. A protein is a chain of amino acids that your body has to work to break down for use. The cow just puts it together for you from its vegetarian diet. You can get all those amino acids from a diversified vegetarian diet. Also, dark leafy greens, nuts, and seeds are great sources of protein as well.
#27
09-13-2007, 10:54 AM
Re: "You can't be a meat-eating environmentalist"
From today's Yahoo News (AP)
Eating less meat may slow climate change
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070912/...SEMt_wb_es0NUE
Eating less meat may slow climate change
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070912/...SEMt_wb_es0NUE
#29
09-13-2007, 01:53 PM
Re: "You can't be a meat-eating environmentalist"
Incandescent bulbs use a little more energy than fluorescent bulbs. Using fluorescents ostensibly reduces the amount of power rpoduced by a power plant and therefore reduces carbon. However, fluorescents don't produce heat, and though you may think that doesn't do much, try a Minnesota morning in a tiled bathroom with no warm bulbs. Then you turn up the heat, and a furnace being on longer uses a heck of a lot more energy than a light bulb. Also, fluorescent bulbs contain mercury, they will always contain mercury, and it is often difficult to find a place that will take burned out bulbs.
I guess my whole point in this whole thread has been that modern man uses energy. Unless we adopt an Amish lifestyle we will continue to use a lot of energy. Education campaigns encouraging energy conservation are the best ways to get "the masses" to pay attention to the world around them and leave the earth a little cleaner when they leave.
I guess my whole point in this whole thread has been that modern man uses energy. Unless we adopt an Amish lifestyle we will continue to use a lot of energy. Education campaigns encouraging energy conservation are the best ways to get "the masses" to pay attention to the world around them and leave the earth a little cleaner when they leave.
#30
09-13-2007, 02:07 PM
Re: "You can't be a meat-eating environmentalist"
That is the worst argument I have ever heard for incandescent bulbs. I can just see you hovering over your heat-source on a cold Minnesota morning!
Ha!
Okay, don't break the bulbs b/c of the mercury -- true! And conservation education I am all for! Heating your house with incandescents?!?! Ahhhhhhhhhhh HAHAHAHAH!!!!!
Ha!
Okay, don't break the bulbs b/c of the mercury -- true! And conservation education I am all for! Heating your house with incandescents?!?! Ahhhhhhhhhhh HAHAHAHAH!!!!!
