Larry,

First let me apologize for calling you Lars earlier instead of using your real name, Larry. That was not intentional.

I did claim you opened a new thread, and that was a poor choice of words. You did reopen this claim in another thread, and I should have been clearer on that. Specifically, on 2/3/07 in post #16 in this thread, you posted:
From this other post, you did not link to the controversy here, and did not provide a link to this discussion.

When I said you ignored others, I did not mean you failed to acknowledge the existence of the counter claims, but rather I meant you dismissed the validity of those counter claims. You did respond with replies, but you continue to ignore the collective wisdom of others you share this forum with.

By all means, I appreciate you bringing newsworthy information to these forums, but PLEASE try to be more understanding of the help others are trying to share with you as well. You aren't usually wrong, but in this case you clearly are, and stubbornly refuse to help yourself, which is OK, but also continue to spread your ignorance on this issue, and did it outside of this forum where others are less likely to see that your claims have been challenged in a reasonable way.

I am done trying to refute your claim that the value of the hybrid tax credit is affected by the amount of withholding. The collective posts to date on this issue are enough said. However, just as you frequently benefit GreenHybrid with valuable news, I will also try to add value here, even if that means I need to point out errors that friendly posters make. It is not to demean or humiliate them or you, but to set the record straight as best as I can with what I believe is useful information.

-- Alan

 

Alan, I hope when you say that I am "clearly wrong" that you are only referring to the fact that I was wrong when I DID INCORRECTLY say that the hybrid tax credit cannot increase your refund when it clearly CAN DO THAT. I was wrong about that for sure.

But - for the group of people who OWE an amount of tax which is less than their hybrid tax credit, they WILL INDEED LOSE the extra value and will not get benefit of the overage, as I have pointed out and shown in my own refund. Would you like me to go to the effort of pointing out several websites and tax information sites which prove that point, since you do not take my OWN TAX RETURN as proof?

And your reference to the other post I made - I made that post with the entire intent being to tell people that it was not a "bait and switch" because that implies that the credit was originally offered in a certain form and then changed at a later time - which DID NOT HAPPEN. The credit never changed from Day One. That was my point there. And that post was made when I STILL BELIEVED that you could not increase your refund with the credit.


I really appreciate your respect of my views and comments, as I have worked hard to maintain a good reputation on these forums and on others which I visit. I will certainly now be more careful in my translations of news stories because I don't like to be wrong. But you have to admit, there WAS a lot of confusion on this issue, and NOT JUST BY ME. It has been discussed ad nauseum on many hybrid and tax forums. The news stories such as the one I saw got people confused and the discussions did so even more after that.

 

Basically, yes, that is all you stated factually incorrect that I was concerned about. However, I also believe you were wrong to reject the numerous and reasonable attempts to clarify this one error. You are correct now, as has been said many, many times above, the credit cannot result is a savings greater than your total tax liability, and that your withholding has no bearing on what your tax liability is (except for being fined for withholding too little).
And that is why I suggest you made a second error--resisting way too long to allow yourself to understand what so many others here had been trying to tell you.
I really do appreciate this. I think we all do. THANK YOU!
With regards to this thread, for the last four months, with ten other posters involved, it was JUST YOU who was confused. The ONLY other posters who sided with you, gumby and ck90211, both changed their minds by the sixth post on the first day of the thread. I do admit there was a lot of confusion, but except for the first day only, it was all yours!

-- Alan

 

I maybe wrong but I still don't think lars-ss agrees that withholding has no bearing on tax liability.

As of yesterday.

The two bolded statements above conflict.

 

You can bring a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

 

You guys are nuts. Simmer down.

It's a credit on the taxes you owe for the year -- regardless of withhodings.

If you are on welfare and have ten kids you prob don't owe and you can't get a credit.

If you are like 95% of hard-working americans, you will get it.

 

Yes, I'm not so sure I enjoy being compared to a horse than cannot be made to drink, although I know it was stated in jest. But I am not some inexperienced wet behind the ears fellow who has never filed anything but a 1040EZ and who has never worked in a payroll department or changed database tax tables or manually figured taxes or electronically transmitted a company's W2 data to the SSA.

I completely understand that at the most basic "Taxes 101" level, withholdings have nothing to to directly with tax liabilities, in that the tax you owe based on the income you received is not affected by the amount you paid in during the year. Only a complete doofus would think that, and I don't qualify in that category.

But once you are in the situation when you are attempting to figure a tax refund and figure in what credits might or might not influence the refund and/or the amount owed, the withholding amount is just as much a part of the equation as your liability amount, like I stated earlier.

Laterz.....

 

Not sure if this helps...But, I used Turbo Tax, which has info about the credit. It seemed to give me a CREDIT of $2100 for the HCHII, leaving my refund at $800+. I believe that this is correct. A credit is a credit. When I was a college student, and getting the Lifetime Learning Credit, it added to the amount of my refund. If you get the Earned Income Tax Credit, it adds to your refund. Maybe I am oversimplifying, but if you owed after you took the credit, you would pay the more in taxes than someone who does not get the credit, possibly rendering the credit worthless. I look forward to getting my check and am prepared to face consequences if they come. My $800 refund is peanuts next to the $10 BILLION that have been "misplaced" in the Iraq reconstruction project.