Help needed with grid charging/discharging.
#21
Re: Help needed with grid charging/discharging.
Not surprisingly the car did another negative/positive recal early into the drive after sitting overnight. I think that was the only time during my 170 mile trip. I'm guessing that it's possibly a self discharge issue. I will perform the charge/discharge/charge per your instructions and report back with the results. It might be a few days.
Thank you for your help and have a good weekend.
Thank you for your help and have a good weekend.
#23
Re: Help needed with grid charging/discharging.
heh... my guesstimates usually aren't that close!
#24
Re: Help needed with grid charging/discharging.
Your estimate was not only accurate, but it allowed me to plan the discharge so that it ended during the day and not in the middle of the night. Much appreciated!
The pack started to discharge more rapidly once it dropped below about 150V and even faster from about 146V and down. Once the voltage dropped to about 125V I watched it closely because it was decreasing pretty fast. The discharge is my least favorite part of the process because it's easy to discharge the pack too much if you aren't paying attention. I keep notes when charging and discharging with a record of the time and voltage reading throughout the process so I know what to expect in the future.
Thanks again.
The pack started to discharge more rapidly once it dropped below about 150V and even faster from about 146V and down. Once the voltage dropped to about 125V I watched it closely because it was decreasing pretty fast. The discharge is my least favorite part of the process because it's easy to discharge the pack too much if you aren't paying attention. I keep notes when charging and discharging with a record of the time and voltage reading throughout the process so I know what to expect in the future.
Thanks again.
#25
Re: Help needed with grid charging/discharging.
Your estimate was not only accurate, but it allowed me to plan the discharge so that it ended during the day and not in the middle of the night. Much appreciated!
The pack started to discharge more rapidly once it dropped below about 150V and even faster from about 146V and down. Once the voltage dropped to about 125V I watched it closely because it was decreasing pretty fast. The discharge is my least favorite part of the process because it's easy to discharge the pack too much if you aren't paying attention. I keep notes when charging and discharging with a record of the time and voltage reading throughout the process so I know what to expect in the future.
Thanks again.
The pack started to discharge more rapidly once it dropped below about 150V and even faster from about 146V and down. Once the voltage dropped to about 125V I watched it closely because it was decreasing pretty fast. The discharge is my least favorite part of the process because it's easy to discharge the pack too much if you aren't paying attention. I keep notes when charging and discharging with a record of the time and voltage reading throughout the process so I know what to expect in the future.
Thanks again.
I have good news and I have bad news.
Good news: Data you collected is worth having for comparison, and it can provide evidence of benefit.
Bad news: It is not likely to be predictive of the timing/pattern of your next discharge.
Good news: The discharge behavior is encouraging as it's consistent with the expected discharge of healthy cells.
Bad news: If you had healthy cells, the first charge should have been enough. A discharge pattern you describe does not indicate benefit from discharging.
Good news: Doing it at a low current minimized the potential for damage in the case of reversals. If behavior is improved after this discharge and a subsequent soak charge, it may warrant a deeper discharge to 66V.
Good news: when all of this is done, you'll have a pack start to finish swap time of about 20-25 minutes
Bad news: You'll never actually enjoy doing a swap.
#26
Re: Help needed with grid charging/discharging.
Very interesting. Definitely not getting my hopes up. It would be great if I could get this battery to limp along like my previous Insight but we'll see. I've read comments from other owners of the HCH2 with worse battery issues than I'm experiencing. Another thing that I wanted to mention is that while driving with assist, the bars in the battery gauge don't seem to decrease that quickly. This is my first (and likely my last) Civic hybrid so I don't have anything to compare it to other than my old Insight. The Insight battery performed well enough for my mostly highway driving thanks to your advice. I was also very conservative with my use of assist and still am. I'm averaging about 47 mpg currently with my average hypermiling skills. Not too bad for the middle of winter.
Removing the pack from the car is a pain but does take less time now that I've done it multiple times. The temperature has been in the single digits here in Wisconsin all week, so even if I could charge the battery in the car the benefit would likely be reduced because of the cold.
I started charging the battery right after the discharge and plan on allowing it to charge for 32 - 36 hours as you recommended. I'll report back once I drive the car and see if there is any change. Hoping to avoid replacing the battery in this car. Needless to say, it's probably not worth it.
Thanks again for your help.
Removing the pack from the car is a pain but does take less time now that I've done it multiple times. The temperature has been in the single digits here in Wisconsin all week, so even if I could charge the battery in the car the benefit would likely be reduced because of the cold.
I started charging the battery right after the discharge and plan on allowing it to charge for 32 - 36 hours as you recommended. I'll report back once I drive the car and see if there is any change. Hoping to avoid replacing the battery in this car. Needless to say, it's probably not worth it.
Thanks again for your help.
#27
Re: Help needed with grid charging/discharging.
Very interesting. Definitely not getting my hopes up. It would be great if I could get this battery to limp along like my previous Insight but we'll see. I've read comments from other owners of the HCH2 with worse battery issues than I'm experiencing. Another thing that I wanted to mention is that while driving with assist, the bars in the battery gauge don't seem to decrease that quickly. This is my first (and likely my last) Civic hybrid so I don't have anything to compare it to other than my old Insight. The Insight battery performed well enough for my mostly highway driving thanks to your advice. I was also very conservative with my use of assist and still am. I'm averaging about 47 mpg currently with my average hypermiling skills. Not too bad for the middle of winter.
Removing the pack from the car is a pain but does take less time now that I've done it multiple times. The temperature has been in the single digits here in Wisconsin all week, so even if I could charge the battery in the car the benefit would likely be reduced because of the cold.
I started charging the battery right after the discharge and plan on allowing it to charge for 32 - 36 hours as you recommended. I'll report back once I drive the car and see if there is any change. Hoping to avoid replacing the battery in this car. Needless to say, it's probably not worth it.
Thanks again for your help.
Removing the pack from the car is a pain but does take less time now that I've done it multiple times. The temperature has been in the single digits here in Wisconsin all week, so even if I could charge the battery in the car the benefit would likely be reduced because of the cold.
I started charging the battery right after the discharge and plan on allowing it to charge for 32 - 36 hours as you recommended. I'll report back once I drive the car and see if there is any change. Hoping to avoid replacing the battery in this car. Needless to say, it's probably not worth it.
Thanks again for your help.
You will have to hold the key in the start position for several seconds to engage the 12V starter, and you will also have persistent IMA and check engine lights.
It might still need periodic grid charging because there is some point at which the block voltages get too far out of spec, and it won't permit 12V charging.
#28
Re: Help needed with grid charging/discharging.
Thank you for the information. It's too bad that Honda didn't seem to improve their hybrid system after the Insight. It's good to know that I can drive the car without the IMA if I have to. Would upgrading to a 51R battery be a good idea if I end up driving the car with the breaker turned off, or would that put more stress on the DC/DC converter? I remember driving the Insight once without the IMA and it wasn't exactly a great performer from a stop. The manual transmission did help though.
I paid just under $2000 for the Civic, which in retrospect was too much. Definitely qualifies as a "beater" car. The engine seems to run well, it's the hybrid battery and CVT that I don't have a lot of faith in. I don't see very many 8th generation Civics on the road, but I have to remind myself that these cars are nearly 20 years old. Vehicles don't last as long in this area due to the generous use of salt on the roads in the winter months.
We'll see what happens after this grid charge. I spent about $50 to build the charger and discharger so I don't have that much invested at this point.
Thanks.
I paid just under $2000 for the Civic, which in retrospect was too much. Definitely qualifies as a "beater" car. The engine seems to run well, it's the hybrid battery and CVT that I don't have a lot of faith in. I don't see very many 8th generation Civics on the road, but I have to remind myself that these cars are nearly 20 years old. Vehicles don't last as long in this area due to the generous use of salt on the roads in the winter months.
We'll see what happens after this grid charge. I spent about $50 to build the charger and discharger so I don't have that much invested at this point.
Thanks.
#29
Re: Help needed with grid charging/discharging.
Thank you for the information. It's too bad that Honda didn't seem to improve their hybrid system after the Insight. It's good to know that I can drive the car without the IMA if I have to. Would upgrading to a 51R battery be a good idea if I end up driving the car with the breaker turned off, or would that put more stress on the DC/DC converter? I remember driving the Insight once without the IMA and it wasn't exactly a great performer from a stop. The manual transmission did help though.
I paid just under $2000 for the Civic, which in retrospect was too much. Definitely qualifies as a "beater" car. The engine seems to run well, it's the hybrid battery and CVT that I don't have a lot of faith in. I don't see very many 8th generation Civics on the road, but I have to remind myself that these cars are nearly 20 years old. Vehicles don't last as long in this area due to the generous use of salt on the roads in the winter months.
We'll see what happens after this grid charge. I spent about $50 to build the charger and discharger so I don't have that much invested at this point.
Thanks.
I paid just under $2000 for the Civic, which in retrospect was too much. Definitely qualifies as a "beater" car. The engine seems to run well, it's the hybrid battery and CVT that I don't have a lot of faith in. I don't see very many 8th generation Civics on the road, but I have to remind myself that these cars are nearly 20 years old. Vehicles don't last as long in this area due to the generous use of salt on the roads in the winter months.
We'll see what happens after this grid charge. I spent about $50 to build the charger and discharger so I don't have that much invested at this point.
Thanks.
Inop IMA CVT might be a little better than your experience with the manual. CVT seeks the optimal power rpm. When the battery is in a negative recal, you lose IMA boost AND have the additional drain of forced charging.
They actually did improve them... just not until the G2 Insight and CR-Z. They ditched the electric A/C and went with a smaller 84 cell pack with much better airflow. The 2012 HCH3 with Lithium performed pretty well except for their inverters. I've never personally heard of a HCH3 lithium battery failing. No. You can't swap the Lithium and NiMH.
#30
Re: Help needed with grid charging/discharging.
I've been charging the battery since 10:00 am immediately following the discharge and it seems like it's charging more slowly than my previous two grid charges. Maybe I'm overanalyzing.
Here are my readings:
10:00 am 99.0V (reading with load connected just before ending discharge)
10:35 am 164.7V
11:00 am 167.5V
1:34 pm 175.3V
3:39 pm 177.5V
5:03 pm 178.6V
6:07 pm 179.3V
8:17 pm 180.6V
9:19 pm 181.3V
Does this look normal? Thanks.
Here are my readings:
10:00 am 99.0V (reading with load connected just before ending discharge)
10:35 am 164.7V
11:00 am 167.5V
1:34 pm 175.3V
3:39 pm 177.5V
5:03 pm 178.6V
6:07 pm 179.3V
8:17 pm 180.6V
9:19 pm 181.3V
Does this look normal? Thanks.