Actually, I read the article quickly and see that I misread it somewhat. At first I, thought the stop was a result of the wrong turn. Upon reading it again more carefully, I see that it was a required stop, but he parked the wrong way. So maybe I could argue that Wayne was pushing to overcome this "mistake".

As for you misrepresenting what people say...
Is that an accurate quote? Is it amusing?

It seems pretty obvious to me that lighfoot has said technology and technique are both important. You implied that he said only technique was important. Obviously, as I just proved, I am capable of misreading some text. Is that what you did as well?

 

It is both accurate and reflects the logical conclusion I see hypermilers take about hybrid technology. In particular a dismissive statement about hybrid technology such as:
I could agree if there had been anything in his posting that gave any credit to hybrid technology rather than starting off by claiming "huge pitfalls of the whole hybrid thing." This is so wrong on so many ways.

He could have started with a great introduction to 'hypermiler' and pointed out that as good as it is for all cars, it really shines when used with hybrids. That would have been perfectly acceptable. But instead, his first paragraph pretty well sets the tone by:
He comes into the hybrid house and begins with an insulting screed about how bad all us hybrid "Prii" and "HCH" drivers are . . . in the house of hybrids. That was both rude and insulting and contained not one bit of respect for hybrid technology. But we are bigger than insults . . . unless it is to someone who isn't here to defend themselves. (NOTE: This is a Southern thang and you' all might not understand it.)

The journalist had accurately reported someone jumping out of the car to push it around. Had it been me, I would have closed and locked the doors and driven off. Rather 'lightfoot' suggests it was the journalists fault for even mentioning it and instantly the paraphrased Shakespearian line came to mind:

"The first thing we do, let's kill all the 'journalists'""

I've come to expect rude behavior and backhanded comments from the hypermiler crowd. Heck, I'm probably on someone's "buddies" list so he can proof-read my every posting and yap at me. That doesn't bother me and since CleanMPG came into being, we've all been a lot happier with an improved signal-to-noise ratio. But come here with a hypermiler chip on one's shoulder and be insulting to someone not deserving or here to defend herself, well it is likely to be answered with a 'clue by four.'

Bob Wilson

 

Wow!

How often do we see people come here and post about hybrids not being that great? How often do we see posts about people complaining about their poor fuel economy in their hybrid?

What do we tell them? We tell them that it's not just the hybrid (technology) that gets you better fuel economy, it's how you drive it (technique). Then we try to tell them how to drive it more effectively. Don't you also participate in these discussions?

Bob, you are imagining things. You are trying to perceive "hypermilers" as enemies and you are misinterpreting their words. Of course lightfoot has embraced hybrid technology. He did buy one. Didn't he? He commented on his fuel economy before adding techniques and said it was pretty good. He then talked about how with added techniques, his fuel economy is even better.

Seriously? The irony here is that you are the one in need of a 'clue by four'.

Clearly, technology and technique are both very important. Look at what some technique can do for your Prius I (it's clickable).

 

In the Prius forums, we also discuss the characteristics of the car, maintenance and how to get good value. The clickable link is here.

Just the hypermilers who jump out of cars; wear ice vests; turn off engines in traffic; draft trucks; and generally make efficient driving sound like a 'double dog dare me' contest.

And then came here with a bad attitude about any other hybrid owners . . . another hypermiler cultist with a chip on his shoulder.

What a great and clueless way to introduce the subject, insulting your audience:
Maybe, just maybe, this preachy, holier than thou attitude should stay at home and he might use his eyes and ears first.
Not really, I use the scientific method to investigate the capabilities of my Prius. Science, you might try it someday.

Darn, all I have is this MPG vs MPH chart:

My hybrid is too interesting to be stuck on just miles per gallon.

Bob Wilson

 

Bob, I still don't see it. There was no bad attitude. There were no insults. I think somebody is just being too sensitive.

I'm not going to waste my time responding to this.

Have you posted that before? I think I've seen it somewhere. It looks like it could be really useful if I ever need to drive with cruise control, on a closed track, in a Prius I, and predict my fuel economy. I better save that plot. You never know.

Really? Then why are you always posting those MPG plots?

People usually buy hybrids because of their MPG. For most, once the hybrid is purchased, the technology is fixed. Additional gains in fuel economy will come through improved technique. Not all of these techniques are as extreme as you make them out to be. If you think these techniques are too complicated or too overwhelming to try, that is fine. They are not for everyone. Some people prefer the simplicity of just using cruise control. Nothing is wrong with that. However, cruise control is not even close to being an option for me in my everyday driving.

You shouldn't let it bother you so much when people can get better fuel economy without using your simple approach. Usually, there are just too many variables going on to summarize in a simple plot.

 

I'd like very much for this thread to have been a positive discussion to promote some hypermiling and common sense fuel saving techniques, but the thread got hiijacked - don't blame myself, Mr. Kite, or lightfoot. I don't remotely expect the masses to drive like Wayne, but a few of his techniques would save a lot of gas and not in the least present any legal or safety questions, but of course that discourse was hiijacked....

In a way, Bob you have done me a favor in your recent posts by showing the same degree of contempt, arrogance, and sarcasm as your PMs...

Let's see....
- ignored the mainstream tips in the Tribune article
- ignored Randy Burkhalter's video interview because it did not have any edgy hypermiling to attack
- ignored the podcast of myself, Brian Morris, and Eric Powers - again no edgy hypermiling stuff.
- there might be 1-2 dozen fairly positive hypermiling articles...Bob will ignore them.

Bob will do like a partisan politician and pretend only 10% of the published material represents all hypermilers - this is the scientific method? If this is professional research, it's a lot like Mr. Spinella's assertions a Prius lasts 100,000 miles - an H2 300,000 - apparently Bob approves of his methods since he distorts hypermiling in a Spinellaesque manner. I'm wondering why Bob seems to have just one graph to show...

So has Bob been a uniter or divider?




P.S. It's interesting to note that from 1961-1985, the Soviet spacecraft were much more automated than the American ones, but they lost crew on three mission, while the US did not lose one. Moral of story: both vehicle quality and skilled drivers are important.

 

It is physics 101. The energy required to keep a vehicle in motion is the integral of the drag over the distance. No amount of magic driving will changes that fundamental law of physics.
Physics.
In contrast, my playground are these subject areas:

• tire inflation
• tire selection
• wheel alignment
• engine oil viscosity
• engine oil level
• transaxle oil service life
• transaxle oil viscosity
• block heaters
• thermistor hack
• gasoline energy survey
• engine and hybrid data collection
• engine specific fuel consumption mapping
• speed versus engine load
• load versus battery drain
• pulse and glide efficiency mapping

No, I prefer empirical studies.

Then drop the extreme techniques and peace and harmony will descend upon us all. But as long as people are jumping out of cars to push them; wearing ice vests; and turning off engines in traffic; and drafting trucks, those stunts define the "hypermiler."
Ahhh, the secret society of hypermiler techniques that are too hard for this simple engineer to understand. I must be Puddin'NHead Wilson.
Apparently you still endorse extreme techniques and approve of them as being "hypermiler." They have become the face and reputation of hypermiler.

No, I prefer empiricism and engineering. Now to work on my latest project:


To pick it up, I drove 979 miles in 20 hours, trip average speed of 49 mph, which includes the bathroom breaks, meals and picking up the parts. I burned 18.7 gallons for 52 MPG versus the old EPA of 45 MPG. The trip had two segments:

• HSV AL to Rockwell NC via I-40 at driving speeds of 70 mph - I recorded all of the trip data with Graham scanner along with GPS position and altitude data. I have about 10 MB of data to analyze to map more details about the "knee in the curve" and engine performance at higher power levels. Based upon the MPH vs MPG chart, I expected to get upper 40s MPG and it came in at 49.9 MPG. The block speed was 50.4 mph.
• Rockwell NC to HSV AL via Altanta at driving speeds of 65 mph - knowing the good side of the knee, I expected, based upon the MPH vs MPG chart to get mid-50s MPG and it came in at 55.7 MPG. My block speed was 48 mph.

Ordinarily a 20 hour trip would be exhausting but the cruise control worked quite nicely. I spent my time watching traffic, looking at the sights and listening to satellite radio. The hybrid's low noise and vibration makes such long trips possible with just breaks for bathroom, meals and pickup the parts.

Bob Wilson

 

Hi Chuck,
From my standpoint, it has been both enlightening and entertaining. What I had long suspected, the emergence of a cult, has been demonstrated:

• cult guru - every cult starts with a personality, one person, who achieves god-like status and powers. No criticism is allowed upon pain of an immediate and quite hostile reaction.
• mysteries - cults have magical methods and methodologies that are too difficult to understand without indoctrination. They are 'magical methods' because empirical, detailed analysis are always missing, like plotting MPG vs MPH curves of an Insight marathon:
• prosetylizing - cult members must preach the salvation of their guru's teachings to the exclusion of any other point of view.
• blaming others for problems - remember the journalist whom 'lightfoot' blamed for reporting the excesses of hypermiler.
• oblivious to their own behavior - when in their 'mood', cultists detach from ordinary reality and ordinary dialog becomes impossible. In any other area, they are quite normal but their cult behavior is pretty ugly.

This thread has laid out the facts and data and supports my hypothesis about the cult of hypermiler. I would have preferred something else but the signature pattern of cults sometimes means they can't be avoided.

Bob Wilson

 

OK.

That's cool if you want to put all that time into predicting and measuring MPG vs. MPH. When you are driving at a certain speed, do you pull out a copy of that plot to figure out your fuel economy? To each his own. However, my car has this nifty fuel consumption gauge. If the instantaneous fuel economy varies too much, I can reset my trip B fuel economy and average over some distance. I don't need a plot. It just seems incredibly inefficient to me. I wouldn't call that engineering.

And finally, there's that chart again. Do you realize how often you regurgitate that thing? Really, you should try plotting how many times you plot that thing each week versus time--just don't call it science when you do this.

I'm reminded of this thread:
https://www.greenhybrid.com/discuss/...ad.php?t=14451
Do you realize that you post the same thing over and over again? I mean some of the threads you have started have nearly identical titles.

 

Bob Wilson,

You are truly off-the-wall in your accusations now, yet lack the good sense to be ashamed.

I've seen vicious internet character assisination well before coming here seeing it from you. It is a perfectly normal reaction to be repulsed when someone is misrepresented and unjustly demonized. We have a classic example here of projection - a member that has been working diligently the past 1.5 years cultivating a group to blindly follow him - accusing Wayne of just that. Wayne's actions are not solely self-serving, but motivated by something larger than himself - you might want to try that for a change. And yes, Wayne is fallible.

You are about to wake up your sheeple, Bob.