Arthur,

Thank you very much for all your information. It's certainly good to know, especially should something happen to any of us in the future. I have now driven the car quite a bit, so if there were any records, they are probably gone.

I did not hit anything hard enough to employ the airbags. Not sure about the seatbelt since it was a very low impact crash. The whole sequence was probably all under 15 mph. I still feel strongly it was a computer glitch, and we have all had computers behave strangely at times and not necessarily regularly. I also suspect that the minor bump to the rear when hitting the pole while in reverse, then immediately shifting to forward may have "confused" the car. It wasn't behaving normal.

It's been OK since then, though the surges and lags continue to bother me. I have written a number of letters, including one to Honda. Just need to get that one sent off. (Thanks for the reminder!)

 

I don't post very much on this site, preferring to just read and learn but this thread has made me have to comment.

To start with, let me say that I hope most of you never end up on a jury deciding my guilt or innocence on a criminal or civil matter. Talk about jumping to conclusions and presuming guilt based on absolutely nothing.

To immediately assume that the woman driving the car was at fault and was just trying to grind an axe with the dealer is sickening.

As to all the theories regarding whether an incident like she described could or could not happen, I think everyone has to remember one very important thing; these cars are fly-by-wire and anytime you have a computer deciding what inputs result in what output, something could go wrong. Yes, by Federal regulation, the braking is system in a car must be able to overcome the drive motors but this assumes one very basic thing - that everything is working correctly. I challenge anyone here to take any properly maintained and adjusted, unmodified vehicle, step hard on the brakes and accelerator at the same time with the car in gear and see what happens. You will burn out your transmission before you go anywhere. Try it if you don't believe me. And I'm not talking about doing a brake stand either. I've don't many in my day and they require finesse on the brake pedal to try to get the fronts to hold while letting the rears slip. I never tried one on a four wheel disk brake car but I bet it wouldn't work as well as on the old front disk/rear drum combo.

I don't know how the other cars work but in the Escape, the application of the brake is supposed to override the simultaneaous application of the accelerator. The accelerator pedal in the Escape is not mechanically connected to the throttle but instead sends a signal that the computer interprets as a request for more power. Who here is to say that the computer in Alina's car didn't have a malfunction allowing the car to accelerate when it should have stopped. None of us were there except Alina and everyone pretty much called her a liar, stupid and crazy.

Guess that's enough venting for 5 in the morning.

 

Thanks for the defense, Denverjay. The above quote is a good description of what I experienced with the car; actually, I experience this every day driving the car. Many times when I brake, the car surges before the brake takes over. It's something I've never experienced with other cars, so it's unsettling, though it's manageable. In the incident of the accident, it wasn't manageable (obvioulsy). I think in that case, it was a true malfunction. I have to admit that both at the time and since, I have been wondering if it was pedal error on my part, but it didn't behave consistent to how a car would behave if you were flooring the accelerator either.

I suppose we'll never know. I visited this forum to inquire whether anyone else had experienced the same thing and to determine whether this is an issue with the car that needs to be addressed. Time may tell.

 

Finding guilt on a forum is different than finding guilt in a court room. I don't think anybody was throwing guilt around, but simply stating that all things equal the simple solution is usually right. (Usually)

Also remember that all it takes in civil court is for there to be a good probability of guilt to be guilty. In criminal cases the burden is much tougher.

But back to the topic, in the Toyota Camry, application of the accelerator at the same time as the brake will cause the motors to speed up, and no application of power to the drive wheels. Toyota actually has a service technique where you are supposed to put the car in drive, firmly apply the brakes, and press the accelerator until the engine reaches a certain RPM range, and hold it there until the battery reaches a certain state of charge.

 

Yikes...

I'm more a fan of "Akums Razor", that being the simpliest explanation is usually correct. So it's natural to doubt first, then to assume everything at face value. So chill.

Take any automatic car (fwd,awd,rwd) and floor it with less than max brake pressue and you will get it to go forward. There are many explanations that are more plausible than the one where one car has a computer glitch that can't be reproduced. Add in that the person in question writes about her bad experience with the dealer and you now have to question everything. To not do so is silly. IMO.

Anyway, the best suggestion made so far is to document this, if this happens again you have a case.

 

It might seem that way.... but in the defense of the "operator error" theorists thats exactly what has happened in many cases of "sudden acceleration." People claim to have stomped on the brake pedal several times, and its turned out to be the gas.

Does that mean it happened in this case.... no. But with numerous cases like the one mentioned above around.... its going to be difficult to convince some people otherwise without some sort of proof unfortunately.

 

Doubting first then taking things at face value is called jumping to conclusions. Not a good policy in my book. Kind of funny that I'm the one being told to chill after the abuse given to the OP.

Yes you are correct about partial braking. That isn't what is required. What is required is that FULL braking must be able to overpower FULL engine power. Again, assumes everything is working correctly and is properly adjusted.

I'm sure there are many explanations for what happened in this case but what if this does become a pattern with these cars? Has anyone been following the issues of the Crown Vics suddenly accelerating? The problem can't be recreated in the shop, there are no error codes but it keeps happening. In many cases it is in police cars. A woman was just killed recently by a police car that may have run away from the operator.

I think it is always easy to just blame the operator. Sometimes, however, where there is smoke, there really is fire.

 

Dark gray 2005 HAH for sale. Lots of pick up and go. Would any of you buy it?

 

Again, show me a pattern with this car and I'll believe you. Show me that you can reproduce the problem (under the right conditions or whatever). I haven't heard of any other cars of this type doing this. Yes I know it's happened in other makes and in those cases it is REPRODUCIBLE (as you point out). Therefore it's a no brainer. And no where did I jump to a conclusion. Sure I didn't take everything said at face value and one could argue that is jumping to a conclusion. In my books I'm questioning everything first and then I'll form my conclusion. Taking the word of a nonmechanic is not the most prudent thing to do. In your world that would be like the police taking the word of every victim and not questioning everything including maybe an alternate motive (not that I think this is the case here after hearing the explanation given).

 

While the HAH throttle is electronic, the brake is operated by a mechanical linkage. Since that linkage was apparently functional and undamaged after the accident the conclusion has to be that the brakes were working at the time. If the brakes were working and were applied as described then the car could not have accelerated as it did. Therefore, the only logical conclusion I can come to is that the operator was depressing the accelerator pedal not the brake. It is the simplest explanation that fits the facts, and consequently, the most likely. It also fits with the fact that by far the majority of cases of "sudden unintended acceleration" are due to operator error.