Re: Torque Pro Custom PID and Battery Test Results
I believe I've found the pids for what the battery ecm reports as the min and Max cell voltage. much easier to keep an eye on than all 20 at once.
Max Battery Pack Voltage (Volts) 2240EB
A/10
Min Battery Pack Voltage (Volts) 2240EC
A/10
just for an interesting data. my work scanner won't output a recording only screen caps. it saves in some proprietary format but here's start of auto, few frames just before cranking and then cranking showing 70amp load in park. does seem like the update rate isn't really fast, but definitely faster with a 3k$ scanner than torque pro.
Re: Torque Pro Custom PID and Battery Test Results
Definitely on its last legs:
Red line is min/max block voltage deviation. The narrow green band is where healthy batteries are. As you can see, it's almost always above it.
Additionally, the deviation worsens as SoC decrease (top line). This indicates widespread module damage across the pack. Here's a row of block voltages when dV is 1.60V:
Highest on the ends and steadily progressing lower to the center and then increasing as it progresses towards the far end.
Typical dead GM battery. Toyota triggers a warning long before this. GM logic allows a huge dV that's well past end of life.
If any part of this battery has more than 20-30% capacity, I'd be shocked. Modules in the middle likely have barely 10-20%, and I'm being VERY generous.
Setup a display showing SoC, Current and the 20 block voltages on the real-time screen
Settings icon - start recording when you want to log, stop when done, email CSV log from same menu.
TEST:
Open Torque, display your battery data but do not record.
Get the A/C going full blast
Drive around until SoC is > 60%, higher is better. Use very light acceleration and moderate braking to favor charging.
Come to a stop wherever you want to do the test
Place in Neutral
Turn on REAR defroster
If you haven't already, turn A/C & rear A/C on full blast, fresh air, minimum temp
Turn on head lights
Start Torque Recording
If possible, wait until you get to at 40% SoC. Go lower if you can.
When terminating test, place in Park.
Kill A/C, rear defroster and lights
Allow car to charge at idle.
Once car shuts off, or 5 minutes have elapsed, stop logging.
Email the log in CSV format to yourself
Post here, and I'll chart it for you and give my colorful commentary.
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All information is as reported by Torque Pro. Zip of CSV containing Custom PID for Torque Pro attached. Note the current is completely wrong, but it's usually right when you are looking at the sign, i.e., "-" is charge and positive is discharge.
Never had occasion to do it myself, but encountered a 2008 Yukon with 124K miles throwing P061B and P0AC4 codes, so I seized the opportunity.
At time of testing P061B was active but P0AC4 was "pending".
Here is the entire 37 minute recording, mostly idling with A/C bull blast. There's a drive starting around 18:11 and a "controlled" discharge test for 2 minutes starting around 18:14:35:
For convenience, the horizontal lines are spaced 0.2V. A healthy battery should have all blocks within that range, so anything outside of that is suspect.
As you can see, block voltage deviation was pretty bad. No matter what I did, I couldn't get Torque Pro to pull data more than about once every 2 seconds, so that's definitely an issue that creates uncertainty; however, the magnitude of the deviations pretty much put the nail in this battery's coffin.
The following chart is a zoom-in to the 2 minute discharge following the drive:
Don't remember what happened there near the middle, but basically this was accomplished by running A/C full blast, running rear defroster and headlights while auto stopped. Was probably around 8-9A of load.
It's worth noting that this was only from about 56% to 46% SoC. V01 was consistently the highest during discharge and the lowest during charge indicating this is likely the only semi-healthy block.
The fact that 19 blocks are spread through a 0.8-1.0V range WELL BELOW the strongest apparent block screams that this battery has suffered massive permanent damage.
Looks like 100% of charts posted confirm that the GM Hybrid batteries are basically destroyed when it comes time to replace them.
I would encourage anyone that has purchased a replacement battery to repeat this exercise and post here to document how a healthy battery behaves. If you're in the Phoenix are, swing by, and I'll do it for you...
I am in the process of refurbishing/balancing my 2013 Silverado Hybrid battery. I will rub the test once I get it back in the truck in a few days.
I am taking the best cells out of 2 batteries and hoping it will give me time until my Nexcell Lithium arrives.
I tow heavy with my truck and I am very hard on the batteries. I know its time to service the battery when my engine revs higher than it should on a hard takeoff. It used to confuse me but make complete sense knowing that one motor acts as the torque converter. Basically, the gas engine will overpower the motor if the battery is too weak.
I feel this is the only reason for lowered towing capacity.
Re: Torque Pro Custom PID and Battery Test Results
nice to see one get used for towing and stuff, I've wondered and only found a few references to it. since there's no tow haul mode, do you tow in normal drive where auto stop and the variable clutches in the tranny are used, or do you tow in M4 mode which doesn't use auto stop and just runs the 4 normal gear ratios in the tranny.
I've seen a comment that M4 is like tow mode, which kinda makes sense but also a very knowledgeable guy that doesn't post here anymore, but I believe he had a hand in it was at least around the development of these trucks said to just run it and drive, let the computer do what it wants with the tranny.
how many miles is on yours, and have you serviced the tranny often?
sorry to high jack the battery thread but it's very interesting how your refebed pack goes and if you do go the nexcell, how those work too under what is probably the extreme side of the use these trucks/suv see.
Re: Torque Pro Custom PID and Battery Test Results
You are correct, towing is done in M4 mode. (as per manual) Fuel economy is noticeably worse in M4, even when not towing though.
I spoke to a tranny mechanic who grew up in a tranny shop and he said he has never yet had to fix a (2ML70) Gm truck/SUV hybrid transmission.
He did have other people come in like me asking why the engine would rev all the way to 5000 RPM on a hard take-off.
He tested my fluid, which had about 15000KM of towing (at max weight) on it and he said there was no sign of clutch wear or overheating. (makes sense when you look at the way the electric motor acts as the toque converter)
Jack from Dr. Prius said it is more likely that the engine is trying to charge the battery (so that the electric motor can transfer the ICE torque to the wheels.)
I am still in the process of reconditioning my battery and finding the weakest modules. Here is some data.
Batteries modules are charged at up to 5 amps with a SkyRC Q200 charger to max voltage, rest for 30 minutes then discharged at up-to 2 amps max, they seem to draw closer to 1.3 amps though.
(A cells are from my spare battery that sat in storage for a year and were charged once 5 months ago or something)
(B cells are from my 2013 Silverado)
After a single cycle my truck modules all improved to 4000 mAh.
(I did not test them without a top-up charge as I already knew they were weak)
Cell B33, Cycle 1 capacity 4825mAh, Cycle 2 Capacity 6257mAh
Here is a bad cell from my spare battery. I ran it for 3 cycles so far and decided it won't make it into the truck.
Yet its amazing to see how much capacity I managed to reclaim.
Cell A25, Cycle 1 capacity 0670mAh, Cycle 2 capacity 3860 mAh, Cycle 3 capacity 4591 mAh
I will post a link to my spreadsheet with the data from all 80 cells once I complete the project and get the battery back in my truck.
Once I have my best 40 cells selected I will charge all modules individually, then balance them in parallel for min 24 hours, 48 hours if I can.
Then disassemble them pack and arrange the pack in series and charge the pack with my 400V charger +/- 340 volts after I get the whole unit installed back into my truck (1.41v per cell (40 modules @ 6 cells each).
I plan to use the "grid" charger every morning for 2 hours to "warm' my battery during our cold Canadian winter.
I am winging it with the best knowledge I have, so feel free to chime in, IF you have done this before.
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Yukon/Silverado Transmission teardown.
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09-10-2022, 07:37 AM
Re: Torque Pro Custom PID and Battery Test Results
